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September 4, 2013
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Don't Give Nazis The Liberty They Would Deny You! by poasterchild Don't Give Nazis The Liberty They Would Deny You! by poasterchild
Please disseminate widely, thank you! This does not give permission to alter or claim credit for this re-mixed work, for which I retain all copyrights. The original illustration is in the public domain.

If you disagree with the views expressed here, please be sure to read my Policy Statement BEFORE you post: fav.me/d4tf3xs

This poaster is for those misguided folks -- including the loser who compared me to Stalin in a very poorly done poster this morning [fav.me/d6kxzl6] -- who seem to think that my advocating denying the right to post hate speech on dA is somehow equivalent to the tyrannical reign of the former Soviet dictator. That's a bit of a stretch, I'd say. Ask any Catholic, Jew, Gypsy, disabled person, labor unionist, gay person, or Protestant humanitarian who lived under Nazi oppression during the Turd Reich just how far the National Socialists went to protect their free speech rights. The current crop of fascist punks that have managed to claw out a safe haven here on deviantArt are no different. They should be banned from spreading their message of hatred and totalitarianism on this website, and I won't rest until they are.
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:icontwentyplustwo:
TwentyPlusTwo Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Keep those goose-stepping fucks out of deviantART. They want to preach their hateful Nazi shit, have them do it elsewhere.
Reply
:iconaceking90:
aceking90 Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014
I have to agree with your opponent as much as I hate saying that, but he is right. If we start banning people from free speech simply because we do not agree with them, how are we any different?
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:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
If you cannot tell the difference between someone who bans free speech in order to enslave others and impose a tyranny, and those who would restrict the ability of them to do so, I cannot help you.  Just ask anyone who was in Weimar.
Reply
:iconaceking90:
aceking90 Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014
Free speech is free speech, no matter how terrible it is. It starts with the Nazis, then it's the capitalist, then the religious, then tea party, and so on and so forth until you have blocked everyone who disagrees with you on anything.
Reply
:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
That's your presumption and assertion, and is not my opinion.  But, continue to violate my anti-trolling policy and I will deftly apply my banhammer and simply be done with your utter bullshit.  No democracy permits anti-democratic sedition, including the one I'm running here.  You've said your piece; now, move on while I'm still in a charitable mood.
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Hidden by Owner
:iconcreeppingdeath:
CreeppingDeath Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2014  Student Digital Artist
NICE!
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:iconthespikeandkey:
TheSpikeAndKey Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
were gona need a bigger boot:( (Sad) 
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:iconnobodyknows14:
nobodyknows14 Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014
This is noble of you, and it's completely right!
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:iconmornofvivec:
MornofVivec Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2014
People do have the right of free speech to criticize others, I acknowledge that. However, the Nazis clearly abuse such privileges, as they promote a message of intolerance and regression.
Reply
:iconblackstrike:
blackstrike Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2013  Professional Photographer
People say that we should give nazis freedom of speech and treat them nicely so we don't be like them, yadda, yadda, yadda...Bugger to that all. I say we stomp them into ground. Outlaw that stupid ideology and put in jail for a decade or so anyone caught supporting it.
Reply
:iconpronus:
Pronus Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2013
In Britain the general policy by anti-fascists against fascists has been to confront them at every opportunity and fight them when necessary. It's an interesting debate. It's not exactly democratic in the general sense but it is about trying to defend what little democratic rights we have. The battles between fascists and anti-fascists are widely seen as the reason that Britain has less of a fascist problem than many other parts of Europe. These days fascist rallies and marches are accompanied by huge swathes of police to protect the fascists from them from general public. The image of police marching alongside fascists is a powerful image that says a lot about the state of the things.

I don't think fascists getting to power is so much the main threat. It's more that existence of fascists support the existing powers in subtle ways that are often not recognized. Their extreme policies give the impression that existing government policies are more moderate and fascist groups are often linked with secret services and the police. In some countries the police ARE the fascists. The same people use the two different identities. When the police don their fascist outfits they have no one to answer to and can and do attack protesters on different issues with impunity. A friend of mine got beaten up by a fascist in the Czech Republic during the protests against the World Bank and IMF and later was arrested (he didn't do anything except protest). He then saw the same guy who beat him up at work in the police station. So I think its a bit naive to think that fascists are simply ordinary people wanting to voice their democratic rights.

The truth about fascists' role in society is far more complex and sinister than that.
Reply
:iconmattaui:
mattaui Featured By Owner Sep 7, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This is one of those things I always struggle with, since drawing the line at what constitutes acceptable speech seems horribly slippery to me. However, being that dA is a private enterprise it can apply just about any sort of speech code it wants. The relative merits of allowing 'hate' speech here seems pretty lacking.
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:icontheiotragi:
theiotragi Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2013
love it
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:iconfametsuri:
FametSuri Featured By Owner Sep 6, 2013
"(...) allowing people to air false opinions is productive for two reasons. First, individuals are more likely to abandon erroneous beliefs if they are engaged in an open exchange of ideas. Second, by forcing other individuals to re-examine and re-affirm their beliefs in the process of debate, these beliefs are kept from declining into mere dogma." John Stuart Mill, On Liberty...

Let them cry.
Reply
:iconone-bad-mo-fo:
One-Bad-Mo-Fo Featured By Owner Sep 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Not to add to the chorus busting your balls (so to speak) about this. . . but.

This makes me deeply uncomfortable.
The answer to terrible use of free speech is not censorship.
We generally don't need to worry about popular viewpoints being repressed.
Defending free speech often means defending the rights of the most extreme, unpopular, and odious among us.

And if you do censor in that way you still have the problem of where you draw the line. Somewhere between "The
Jews own the American government and must be stopped!" and "The Rich own the American government and must
be stopped!" presumably. But what of people who consider criticism of Israel  inherently antisemitic, should they be
accommodated? Or folks who say statements against Islam are racist? If any non-negative depictions of Hitler get the
ol' banhammer what's the fate of pieces like these fav.me/d3lo7km fav.me/d1y5zak fav.me/d1yosra ?
How many swastikas do you have to draw before you're a Nazi? How exactly would you have to re-use certain artwork
from the 40's before it crossed the line?

Once you allow censorship, your at the mercy of the whims of the censor.
Whose standards are superior enough to judge what everyone else should or should not view?

Anyone saying DA gives tacit support to this scum because they don't actively police them is full of rhetorical bullshit. 
And I personally think letting them letting everyone else know what vile, stunted, myopic little human beings they actually
are is the right thing to do.
Reply
:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Sep 5, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
My balls feel totally unbusted, but thanks for your articulate opinion.
Reply
:iconcelestialhost:
Celestialhost Featured By Owner Sep 5, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I wish the BBC in the UK would stop interviewing Nick Griffin, BNP leader. They shouldn't be giving racism a platform.
Reply
:iconamascusmage:
amascusmage Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013
This is quite a logical fallacy.  wouldn't denying the "Nazis" the liberty they want to deny others make us Nazis as well?  Shouldn't we rather take the moral high ground and give everyone liberty regardless of what they believe?  You know, the whole golden rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Reply
:iconrazielus91:
Razielus91 Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
+1

QFT

I'm glad to see that there are people who see this point
You can actually ask "and who is a nazi/commie now ?"
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:iconamascusmage:
amascusmage Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2013
thanks
Reply
:iconrazielus91:
Razielus91 Featured By Owner Sep 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You're welcome :salute:
Reply
:iconblackstrike:
blackstrike Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2013  Professional Photographer
I call bullshit. If you can give a SINGLE good thing that nazism brought to the world, I'd agree with you but there's NOTHING that we can get from that obsolete and retarded ideology. All nazism did is to spread hate. Basically, they're cancer of this world. Would you let cancer grow in your body without treating it?
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:iconamascusmage:
amascusmage Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2013
If you read my comments carefully, I am not claiming that Nazism is good, or that we should not treat it - quite the opposite!  I am saying we have to be careful HOW we treat it.  To follow up on your cancer analogy, you wouldn't treat cancer by shooting the patient in the head with a shotgun would you?  Likewise when fighting against those Nazism and similar ideologies we must not cross the ethical lines of right and wrong we are trying to defend from them.  Otherwise we will find ourselves on the wrong side of the line... literally.
Reply
:iconblackstrike:
blackstrike Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2013  Professional Photographer
If we're talking about analogies here, your is completely off the mark. When did I mention ANYTHING about hurting a patient at all? No, I just think that CANCER should be dealt with quite aggressively. In this particular case, I think that nazism and nazis should be eradicated. "Ceterum censeo nazism esse delendam", to paraphrase Mr. Cato Sr., bless his soul.

You believe that nazism should be given a chance to spread more by not crossing some imaginary ethics lines that you put out for everyone. I believe that something that virulent and dangerous, without ANY use to human kind, needs to be eliminated quickly, decisively and without remorse. There are no emotions involved, just a decision to break all ties with something as poisonous as nazism.

And there's a simple reason I think so about nazism. You see, even after WW2 and all the atrocities they committed, that ideology a) still exist and b) is spreading and taking roots in various countries. There's not a SINGLE positive thing that nazism brought to human kind in general. Why oh why we would let it linger and even spread further? What intelligent being would allow something that aggressive and maniacally deadly to spread further before uprooting it and tossing it in fire?

Ethics is fine and all, but when you deal with evil, there's only one way to stop it and we all know it. This isn't a superhero comic where you put villain in asylum or prison or whatever and he/she breaks out in time for Saturday night special. This is real life and nazism KILLS people. Sooner we put it down permanently, better for everyone.
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:iconamascusmage:
amascusmage Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2013
you need to work a bit more on your reading comprehension.  None of the points you are arguing against are points I have claimed to support nor are your arguments relevant to the issues I raised.  I am only interested in discussing this if you are willing to have an intelligent conversation, not a mud slinging competition.
Reply
:iconblackstrike:
blackstrike Featured By Owner Sep 10, 2013  Professional Photographer
I'm sorry, you're telling me that I need to work on reading comprehension? Did you even read my 1st paragraph?

And when did I do any mud slinging? I never called you names, I stated my own opinion regarding nazism, offered analogy comparing that ideology to cancer of our society etc, all you did is some half-assed defense how nazis have right to freely spread their ideology.

My arguments aren't relevant in which way? You DIDN'T provide ANY argument in this conversation, only thing you expressed is above mentioned half-assed defense of nazis.

Before you insult somebody's intelligence you need to prove you can hold your side of conversation, bub. Until then, you're in weight category far above your own. Pick somebody else for your empty rhetoric - here you sound just like a uneducated pretender with no intelligent arguments and no clear plan of action.
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:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Your argument would hold true were it not for the fact that these people are not committed to the free expression of ideas and indeed, as their shameful history has shown, are committed to the totalitarian dominance of only their values.  They have used democratic freedoms to destroy democracy, as was the case in Weimar.  No democratic society can continue to exist without constraining the liberty of those who would assault and destroy its fundamental values.  This is why we prohibit the free expression of those who would otherwise advocate the violent overthrow of the United States government.  You will find no more ardent a civil libertarian than me -- just look at my work.  Yet, I recognize that no right is absolute, and that with liberty comes the responsibility to support the institutions that make that liberty possible, even, and perhaps especially, when that means denying liberty to those who would destroy it.  Sadly perhaps, it is not a perfect world, but I will take an imperfect liberty in preference to a perfect totalitarianism every time.
Reply
:iconamascusmage:
amascusmage Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013
Government does (and should) restrict liberty based on crimes committed... actions, not words. but you are talking about restricting freedom of expression based on that expression alone.  The argument you use is the same one used by your adversaries historically to quash their opposition and become totalitarian in the first place. and you cannot cross this line without becoming the monster you claim to be fighting.
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:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Oh I think groups such as the NDASP have committed plenty of crimes.  Seems to me there was a judicial proceeding in a place called Nuremberg that established that pretty conclusively.

And no, the argument I use is not the same as theirs, my friend.  I espouse freedom of expression for everyone who supports liberty and the freedom of expression for everyone.  The Nazis and their variants will, in the final analysis, support freedom of expression, and action, only for themselves.  All others will be liquidated.

You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how obtuse and misguided it is.  You've said your piece.  Now, let's move on.  If you've more to say on this point, I encourage you to make some art and post it in your own gallery.  Thanks.
Reply
:iconpsycho333:
Psycho333 Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013
It's kinda pathetic that when I tried to report a nazi on DA the staff themselves told me that it isnt against their rules...

so I guess a group that is responsible for a real life genocide is supported by DA? 
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:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Apparently so.  :facepalm:
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:iconpsycho333:
Psycho333 Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013
What the actual fuck DA? 
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:iconpoasterchild:
poasterchild Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Any society that wishes to continue a tradition of 800 years of liberty must protect itself from those who would use its own libertarian values to destroy it.  What do you think would happen if suddenly the Nazi wannabees on deviantArt had control here?  In any event, as I have said many times before, the First Amendment only constrains government.  It has no effect whatsoever on what a private corporation such as deviantArt does.  By permitting Nazis to spew their filth in this venue, the company's CEO, Angelo Sotira, demonstrates every day that he is the hypocrite since dA has a stated policy of "zero tolerance for hate speech."  In terms of what the government does, I happen to agree with you.  In terms of what private entities such as dA do, I find your argument specious and as having no effect.  Treating Nazis with tolerance is a recipe for disaster.  Just ask the Weimar government.
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:iconcompanyholland:
companyHOLLAND Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
it is highly sickening that the nazis remain at large ,they also make themselves known on the militairy-art speaking as if germany hadnt started the war its sad ,disgusting and an insult to themselves . you will see many nazis writ "seig heil ,heil hitler" but everytime i ask why hitler send his armies to doom in difernt pointless battles (such as the battle of the bulge ,the 6th army ,yhe foreign ss volounteers and many more) the nazism spreading today grows out of weakness ,the will to act as if they can have the sole right to tell history as the "victims" and when spoken too suddenly its "the mighty german army that took on the world and almost won" its horrible ,their existens is a cancer to those who wish the horrors of history not to repeat itself ...as it has done so many times before! 

poasterchild.deviantart.com/ poasterchild  you truly are a wall holding a dark stream of extremism and passifism and you do not stand alone ,those who remember fashisms deeds to the world stand with you ! 
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:icongallanty:
Gallanty Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Soon there will be the federal election in Germany and suddenly lots of far-right parties are mushrooming. It's disgusting. Therefore, great poster!
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:iconrasheedzee:
Rasheedzee Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I support gay marriage111
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:icondkalban:
Dkalban Featured By Owner Sep 4, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Agreed

And that should apply to society at large. Nazis and their ilk should be personae non gratiae!
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